[RDD] Remote "Board Op" from within RDAirPlay

[drew Roberts]

Hi,

I am looking for thoughts on possible ways to do this.

Let's say we go on a remote and have no one in the air studio.

We can remote into (say vnc over an ssh tunnel) the rdairplay machine to
control things.

We can monitor the broadcast signal from an FM receiver at the remote
location.

We can set a music bed on an RDAirPlay sound panel button.
We can set a music bed on an RDPanel sound panel button.
We can set a music bed in an RDCartSlot cart slot.

We can set up a macro to go to a remote break and put it on an RDAirPlay
sound panel button.
We can set up a macro to come back from a remote break and put it on an
RDAirPlay sound panel button.

Consider:

a macro with this command:

RN /home/rduser/goremote.sh!

will fire the following bashscript

#!/bin/bash
# goremote.sh
# rml commands to go to start a remote

rmlsend PS\ 1\!
rmlsend PP\ S1\ 1\ 1\!

and:

a macro with this command:

RN /home/rduser/endremote.sh!

will fire the following bashscript

#!/bin/bash
# endremote.sh
# rml commands to go to end a remote

rmlsend PT\ S1\ 1\ 1\!
rmlsend PN\ 1\!

When you are ready to go to a break, you switch to LiveAssist mode and
click on the goremote button on the sound panel in rdairplay when the
current cart is almost over. the cart will end and the music bed will start.

When you are ready to end the remote segment, you switch to Automatic mode
and click on the endremote button on the sound panel in rdairplay.

Crude and nasty but it can kind of work.

***IMPORTANT*** This currently ignores the very important issue of how we
get the remote audio into rdairplay to play over the top of the music bed
in the first place but that is for a later discussion.

To make this better:

1. How can we FADE DOWN the LOG machine and FADE UP the BED when going into
the remote break?
2. How can we loop the bed so that we can use a shorter audio file in the
BED cart? (If we cannot do this, we will need a bed that is longer than any
break we will ever have.
3. How can we FADE DOWN the BED and FADE UP the LOG machine when coming out
of the remote break?

What questions should I be asking that I am not?
What are better ways to do this?

Would it be better to put the macro carts for going into and out of the
breaks into the log in the correct spot rather than firing manually from
the sound panel?

Etc.

all the best,

drew

[Tim Camp]

Drew,

When we do remotes the jock just records the break and ssh's the file to a
dropbox the puts it in a special cart
Then we schedule or insert the remote open and bed followed by the break
cart. the remote open and bed seques into uploaded break with the bed
continuing underneath, when the break cart ends log continues to next event
fading and killing the bed automatically.

Tim Camp
WZEW-FM
Mobile, Al.

Post by drew Roberts
Hi,
I am looking for thoughts on possible ways to do this.
Let's say we go on a remote and have no one in the air studio.
We can remote into (say vnc over an ssh tunnel) the rdairplay machine to
control things.
We can monitor the broadcast signal from an FM receiver at the remote
location.
We can set a music bed on an RDAirPlay sound panel button.
We can set a music bed on an RDPanel sound panel button.
We can set a music bed in an RDCartSlot cart slot.
We can set up a macro to go to a remote break and put it on an RDAirPlay
sound panel button.
We can set up a macro to come back from a remote break and put it on an
RDAirPlay sound panel button.
RN /home/rduser/goremote.sh!
will fire the following bashscript
#!/bin/bash
# goremote.sh
# rml commands to go to start a remote
rmlsend PS\ 1\!
rmlsend PP\ S1\ 1\ 1\!
RN /home/rduser/endremote.sh!
will fire the following bashscript
#!/bin/bash
# endremote.sh
# rml commands to go to end a remote
rmlsend PT\ S1\ 1\ 1\!
rmlsend PN\ 1\!
When you are ready to go to a break, you switch to LiveAssist mode and
click on the goremote button on the sound panel in rdairplay when the
current cart is almost over. the cart will end and the music bed will start.
When you are ready to end the remote segment, you switch to Automatic mode
and click on the endremote button on the sound panel in rdairplay.
Crude and nasty but it can kind of work.
***IMPORTANT*** This currently ignores the very important issue of how we
get the remote audio into rdairplay to play over the top of the music bed
in the first place but that is for a later discussion.
1. How can we FADE DOWN the LOG machine and FADE UP the BED when going
into the remote break?
2. How can we loop the bed so that we can use a shorter audio file in the
BED cart? (If we cannot do this, we will need a bed that is longer than any
break we will ever have.
3. How can we FADE DOWN the BED and FADE UP the LOG machine when coming
out of the remote break?
What questions should I be asking that I am not?
What are better ways to do this?
Would it be better to put the macro carts for going into and out of the
breaks into the log in the correct spot rather than firing manually from
the sound panel?
Etc.
all the best,
drew
--
Bahamain Or Nuttin - http://www.bahamianornuttin.com
<http://www.bahamianornuttin.com/>
_______________________________________________
Rivendell-dev mailing list
http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev

[drew Roberts]

Tim,

thanks for the prompt response.

Post by Tim Camp
Drew,
When we do remotes the jock just records the break and ssh's the file to a
dropbox the puts it in a special cart
Then we schedule or insert the remote open and bed followed by the break
cart. the remote open and bed seques into uploaded break with the bed
continuing underneath, when the break cart ends log continues to next event
fading and killing the bed automatically.

We had experimented with that before. (The uploading bit.) I think this
time Eric actually wants to go live. (I will try to get your setup with the
intro and the bed carts working as a comparison though.)

Post by Tim Camp
Tim Camp
WZEW-FM
Mobile, Al.

all the best,

drew

Post by Tim Camp

Post by drew Roberts
Hi,
I am looking for thoughts on possible ways to do this.
Let's say we go on a remote and have no one in the air studio.
We can remote into (say vnc over an ssh tunnel) the rdairplay machine to
control things.
We can monitor the broadcast signal from an FM receiver at the remote
location.
We can set a music bed on an RDAirPlay sound panel button.
We can set a music bed on an RDPanel sound panel button.
We can set a music bed in an RDCartSlot cart slot.
We can set up a macro to go to a remote break and put it on an RDAirPlay
sound panel button.
We can set up a macro to come back from a remote break and put it on an
RDAirPlay sound panel button.
RN /home/rduser/goremote.sh!
will fire the following bashscript
#!/bin/bash
# goremote.sh
# rml commands to go to start a remote
rmlsend PS\ 1\!
rmlsend PP\ S1\ 1\ 1\!
RN /home/rduser/endremote.sh!
will fire the following bashscript
#!/bin/bash
# endremote.sh
# rml commands to go to end a remote
rmlsend PT\ S1\ 1\ 1\!
rmlsend PN\ 1\!
When you are ready to go to a break, you switch to LiveAssist mode and
click on the goremote button on the sound panel in rdairplay when the
current cart is almost over. the cart will end and the music bed will start.
When you are ready to end the remote segment, you switch to Automatic
mode and click on the endremote button on the sound panel in rdairplay.
Crude and nasty but it can kind of work.
***IMPORTANT*** This currently ignores the very important issue of how we
get the remote audio into rdairplay to play over the top of the music bed
in the first place but that is for a later discussion.
1. How can we FADE DOWN the LOG machine and FADE UP the BED when going
into the remote break?
2. How can we loop the bed so that we can use a shorter audio file in the
BED cart? (If we cannot do this, we will need a bed that is longer than any
break we will ever have.
3. How can we FADE DOWN the BED and FADE UP the LOG machine when coming
out of the remote break?
What questions should I be asking that I am not?
What are better ways to do this?
Would it be better to put the macro carts for going into and out of the
breaks into the log in the correct spot rather than firing manually from
the sound panel?
Etc.
all the best,
drew
--
Bahamain Or Nuttin - http://www.bahamianornuttin.com
<http://www.bahamianornuttin.com/>
_______________________________________________
Rivendell-dev mailing list
http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev

[Lorne Tyndale]

Hi,

I think you're making this more difficult then it needs to be.

What I'd do:

-Have the audio coming from your remote on a separate channel on your
console in your on-air studio

-Have that channel set up so that Rivendell can turn that remote channel
on / off via GPIO's

-For your remote site gear, since you're going to have a computer
already (to be able to see the on-air machine RDAirplay via VNC) use a
Linux box, install a "remote" copy of Rivendell on it that includes your
music bed audio

-At your remote site connect your mic and your "remote computer" audio
into a small mixer (or if you use something like a Tieline
Commander/iMix or Comrex Access with the mixer add on, just use the
inputs on that). If needed you can usually find inexpensive Bheringer
or Mackie's that have 4 to 8 channels that'll work for this type of
application

When you want to go live from the remote site, you can have the remote
computer send the RML back to your studio computer to trigger your GPO
to turn on your "remote" channel. It can stop your playout from the
on-air studio Rivendell system or you could even have it set up that
when you want to go live from remote it'll insert an item with a "stop"
as the next item in the log (that is if you don't want to schedule the
breaks in the log before the remote, which might be easier). Do the
mixing of the voice / bed at the remote site with the mixer you have
there (you can have that audio on the remote site's Rivendell box) and
send all that audio back to your studio. When you want the studio to
resume playout send another RML down the pipe to turn the "remote"
channel back off and do a Play Next in Rivendell. Your audio starts
back up coming from your on-air Rivendell machine.

The biggest concern would be if your network drops for some reason - you
could end up with dead air. But the same situation could happen with
the setup you've described below. As a backup it might be an idea to
tie it all into a silence detector which would - after a certain amount
of time - send your on-air machine a "play next" command in the event
that something like that happens.

Lorne Tyndale

Post by drew Roberts
Hi,
I am looking for thoughts on possible ways to do this.
Let's say we go on a remote and have no one in the air studio.
We can remote into (say vnc over an ssh tunnel) the rdairplay machine to
control things.
We can monitor the broadcast signal from an FM receiver at the remote
location.
We can set a music bed on an RDAirPlay sound panel button.
We can set a music bed on an RDPanel sound panel button.
We can set a music bed in an RDCartSlot cart slot.
We can set up a macro to go to a remote break and put it on an RDAirPlay
sound panel button.
We can set up a macro to come back from a remote break and put it on an
RDAirPlay sound panel button.
RN /home/rduser/goremote.sh!
will fire the following bashscript
#!/bin/bash
# goremote.sh
# rml commands to go to start a remote
rmlsend PS\ 1\!
rmlsend PP\ S1\ 1\ 1\!
RN /home/rduser/endremote.sh!
will fire the following bashscript
#!/bin/bash
# endremote.sh
# rml commands to go to end a remote
rmlsend PT\ S1\ 1\ 1\!
rmlsend PN\ 1\!
When you are ready to go to a break, you switch to LiveAssist mode and
click on the goremote button on the sound panel in rdairplay when the
current cart is almost over. the cart will end and the music bed will start.
When you are ready to end the remote segment, you switch to Automatic mode
and click on the endremote button on the sound panel in rdairplay.
Crude and nasty but it can kind of work.
***IMPORTANT*** This currently ignores the very important issue of how we
get the remote audio into rdairplay to play over the top of the music bed
in the first place but that is for a later discussion.
1. How can we FADE DOWN the LOG machine and FADE UP the BED when going into
the remote break?
2. How can we loop the bed so that we can use a shorter audio file in the
BED cart? (If we cannot do this, we will need a bed that is longer than any
break we will ever have.
3. How can we FADE DOWN the BED and FADE UP the LOG machine when coming out
of the remote break?
What questions should I be asking that I am not?
What are better ways to do this?
Would it be better to put the macro carts for going into and out of the
breaks into the log in the correct spot rather than firing manually from
the sound panel?
Etc.
all the best,
drew
--
Bahamain Or Nuttin - http://www.bahamianornuttin.com
<http://www.bahamianornuttin.com/><hr>_______________________________________________
Rivendell-dev mailing list
http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev

[drew Roberts]

Lorne,

thank you for your answer.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
Hi,
I think you're making this more difficult then it needs to be.

Possibly.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
-Have the audio coming from your remote on a separate channel on your
console in your on-air studio

We want to be able to do this in an air studio that does not have a working
console.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
-Have that channel set up so that Rivendell can turn that remote channel
on / off via GPIO's

I am looking at learning the local audio card switcher functionality to see
if I can do things that way.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
-For your remote site gear, since you're going to have a computer
already (to be able to see the on-air machine RDAirplay via VNC) use a
Linux box, install a "remote" copy of Rivendell on it that includes your
music bed audio
-At your remote site connect your mic and your "remote computer" audio
into a small mixer

We are planning on doing this.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
(or if you use something like a Tieline
Commander/iMix or Comrex Access with the mixer add on, just use the
inputs on that). If needed you can usually find inexpensive Bheringer
or Mackie's that have 4 to 8 channels that'll work for this type of
application

We are currently looking at a small Behringer USB mixer.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
When you want to go live from the remote site, you can have the remote
computer send the RML back to your studio computer to trigger your GPO
to turn on your "remote" channel.

I had not considered doing this remotely. I was doing the RML on the
airplay machine via panel buttons. I will have to ponder this.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
It can stop your playout from the
on-air studio Rivendell system or you could even have it set up that
when you want to go live from remote it'll insert an item with a "stop"
as the next item in the log (that is if you don't want to schedule the
breaks in the log before the remote, which might be easier).

I have made some improvements today from where I started this morning.

I have one button that inserts a macro "next" in the playing log. When the
macro runs, it puts the machine in LiveAssist mode. It then starts the bed
music. It then stops the log machine (I think this is redundant as I should
already be in live assist mode.) It then sleeps for a bit. I had to add the
sleep bit because the next item in the log was being "eaten."

Post by Lorne Tyndale
Do the
mixing of the voice / bed at the remote site with the mixer you have
there (you can have that audio on the remote site's Rivendell box) and
send all that audio back to your studio.

I will try this. I am not sure we want the bed being compressed and
uncompressed on the link.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
When you want the studio to
resume playout send another RML down the pipe to turn the "remote"
channel back off and do a Play Next in Rivendell. Your audio starts
back up coming from your on-air Rivendell machine.

Again, I have a button on the sound panel to do this. This button puts the
machine back into Automatic mode. It then starts the next cart in the log.
It then fades the bed down. It then stop the bed playing.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
The biggest concern would be if your network drops for some reason - you
could end up with dead air. But the same situation could happen with
the setup you've described below. As a backup it might be an idea to
tie it all into a silence detector which would - after a certain amount
of time - send your on-air machine a "play next" command in the event
that something like that happens.

Thank you for this idea of the silence detector. I will have to figure out
how to do it. If I have a looping bed or a long enough bed, I would not
want to detect silence on the rdairplay output. I think I would need to
detect it on the incoming audio from the remote site.

I think if I figure the switcher stuff out, I will need to grab the remote
input on remote start and release it on remote end.

all the best,

drew

Post by Lorne Tyndale
Lorne Tyndale

Post by drew Roberts
Hi,
I am looking for thoughts on possible ways to do this.
Let's say we go on a remote and have no one in the air studio.
We can remote into (say vnc over an ssh tunnel) the rdairplay machine to
control things.
We can monitor the broadcast signal from an FM receiver at the remote
location.
We can set a music bed on an RDAirPlay sound panel button.
We can set a music bed on an RDPanel sound panel button.
We can set a music bed in an RDCartSlot cart slot.
We can set up a macro to go to a remote break and put it on an RDAirPlay
sound panel button.
We can set up a macro to come back from a remote break and put it on an
RDAirPlay sound panel button.
RN /home/rduser/goremote.sh!
will fire the following bashscript
#!/bin/bash
# goremote.sh
# rml commands to go to start a remote
rmlsend PS\ 1\!
rmlsend PP\ S1\ 1\ 1\!
RN /home/rduser/endremote.sh!
will fire the following bashscript
#!/bin/bash
# endremote.sh
# rml commands to go to end a remote
rmlsend PT\ S1\ 1\ 1\!
rmlsend PN\ 1\!
When you are ready to go to a break, you switch to LiveAssist mode and
click on the goremote button on the sound panel in rdairplay when the
current cart is almost over. the cart will end and the music bed will

start.

Post by drew Roberts
When you are ready to end the remote segment, you switch to Automatic

mode

Post by drew Roberts
and click on the endremote button on the sound panel in rdairplay.
Crude and nasty but it can kind of work.
***IMPORTANT*** This currently ignores the very important issue of how we
get the remote audio into rdairplay to play over the top of the music bed
in the first place but that is for a later discussion.
1. How can we FADE DOWN the LOG machine and FADE UP the BED when going

into

Post by drew Roberts
the remote break?
2. How can we loop the bed so that we can use a shorter audio file in the
BED cart? (If we cannot do this, we will need a bed that is longer than

any

Post by drew Roberts
break we will ever have.
3. How can we FADE DOWN the BED and FADE UP the LOG machine when coming

out

Post by drew Roberts
of the remote break?
What questions should I be asking that I am not?
What are better ways to do this?
Would it be better to put the macro carts for going into and out of the
breaks into the log in the correct spot rather than firing manually from
the sound panel?
Etc.
all the best,
drew
--
Bahamain Or Nuttin - http://www.bahamianornuttin.com
<http://www.bahamianornuttin.com/><hr>_____________________

__________________________

Post by drew Roberts
Rivendell-dev mailing list
http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev

[Rob Landry]

What you describe is similar to the way one of our stations handles red
Sox baseball games. We have a script that loads the game log, plays an
intro cart, and joins the satellite feed; we have another script that
plays local breaks, a third script that returns to the game at the end of
the break, and a fourth that unloads the log at the endof the game,
reloads the daily log, and resumes normal programming.

In the case of a remote, though, I would switch to a live feed (Barix box?
Comrex BRIClink?) fromt he remote site, and I'd have a laptop at the
remote site VNC'd via ssh into the Rivendell system at the studio, giving
the talent the ability to push the Sound Paanel buttons. He or she would
have a mixer and the ability to control his/her level, with the bed levels
back at the studio preset.

I wouldn't try to upload audio files from the remote.


Rob
--
Я таЌ, гЎе ребята тПлкПвые,
Я таЌ, гЎе плакаты "ВперёЎ",
ГЎе песМО рабПчОе МПвые
СтраМа труЎПвая пПёт.

Post by drew Roberts
Hi,
I am looking for thoughts on possible ways to do this.
Let's say we go on a remote and have no one in the air studio.
We can remote into (say vnc over an ssh tunnel) the rdairplay machine to
control things.
We can monitor the broadcast signal from an FM receiver at the remote
location.
We can set a music bed on an RDAirPlay sound panel button.
We can set a music bed on an RDPanel sound panel button.
We can set a music bed in an RDCartSlot cart slot.
We can set up a macro to go to a remote break and put it on  an RDAirPlay
sound panel button.
We can set up a macro to come back from a remote break and put it on  an
RDAirPlay sound panel button.
RN /home/rduser/goremote.sh!
will fire the following bashscript
#!/bin/bash
# goremote.sh
# rml commands to go to start a remote
rmlsend PS\ 1\!
rmlsend PP\ S1\ 1\ 1\!
RN /home/rduser/endremote.sh!
will fire the following bashscript
#!/bin/bash
# endremote.sh
# rml commands to go to end a remote
rmlsend PT\ S1\ 1\ 1\!
rmlsend PN\ 1\!
When you are ready to go to a break, you switch to LiveAssist mode and click
on the goremote button on the sound panel in rdairplay when the current cart
is almost over. the cart will end and the music bed will start.
When you are ready to end the remote segment, you switch to Automatic mode
and click on the endremote button on the sound panel in rdairplay.
Crude and nasty but it can kind of work.
***IMPORTANT*** This currently ignores the very important issue of how we
get the remote audio into rdairplay to play over the top of the music bed in
the first place but that is for a later discussion.
1. How can we FADE DOWN the LOG machine and FADE UP the BED when going into
the remote break?
2. How can we loop the bed so that we can use a shorter audio file in the
BED cart? (If we cannot do this, we will need a bed that is longer than any
break we will ever have.
3. How can we FADE DOWN the BED and FADE UP the LOG machine when coming out
of the remote break?
What questions should I be asking that I am not?
What are better ways to do this?
Would it be better to put the macro carts for going into and out of the
breaks into the log in the correct spot rather than firing manually from the
sound panel?
Etc.
all the best,
drew
--
Bahamain Or Nuttin - http://www.bahamianornuttin.com

[drew Roberts]

Rob,

thank you for your input.

Post by Rob Landry
What you describe is similar to the way one of our stations handles red
Sox baseball games. We have a script that loads the game log, plays an
intro cart, and joins the satellite feed; we have another script that plays
local breaks, a third script that returns to the game at the end of the
break, and a fourth that unloads the log at the endof the game, reloads the
daily log, and resumes normal programming.
In the case of a remote, though, I would switch to a live feed (Barix box?
Comrex BRIClink?) fromt he remote site,

Right now we are looking at James Harrison's OpenOB. It sounds quite good
with the opus codec on the voice only feed.

I have yet to figure the switching bit out. Right now it is live all the
time the remote is sending and if we have to we will control it with a mic
that has a switch.

Post by Rob Landry
and I'd have a laptop at the remote site VNC'd via ssh into the Rivendell
system at the studio, giving the talent the ability to push the Sound
Paanel buttons.

We are doing this. (Well, nothing is on the air yet, we are doing this on
some test machines.

Post by Rob Landry
He or she would have a mixer and the ability to control his/her level,
with the bed levels back at the studio preset.

This is planned.

We are actually looking at a remote setup that could connect to the
internet via wired ethernet, wifi, or 3g/4g data to get back to the studio.

Post by Rob Landry
I wouldn't try to upload audio files from the remote.

Like I said to Tim, we have played with that in the past but never gone
onair with that system. This time we want to try going "live" from the
remote location.

all the best,

drew

Post by Rob Landry
Rob
--
Я таЌ, гЎе ребята тПлкПвые,
Я таЌ, гЎе плакаты "ВперёЎ",
ГЎе песМО рабПчОе МПвые
СтраМа труЎПвая пПёт.
Hi,

Post by drew Roberts
I am looking for thoughts on possible ways to do this.
Let's say we go on a remote and have no one in the air studio.
We can remote into (say vnc over an ssh tunnel) the rdairplay machine to
control things.
We can monitor the broadcast signal from an FM receiver at the remote
location.
We can set a music bed on an RDAirPlay sound panel button.
We can set a music bed on an RDPanel sound panel button.
We can set a music bed in an RDCartSlot cart slot.
We can set up a macro to go to a remote break and put it on an RDAirPlay
sound panel button.
We can set up a macro to come back from a remote break and put it on an
RDAirPlay sound panel button.
RN /home/rduser/goremote.sh!
will fire the following bashscript
#!/bin/bash
# goremote.sh
# rml commands to go to start a remote
rmlsend PS\ 1\!
rmlsend PP\ S1\ 1\ 1\!
RN /home/rduser/endremote.sh!
will fire the following bashscript
#!/bin/bash
# endremote.sh
# rml commands to go to end a remote
rmlsend PT\ S1\ 1\ 1\!
rmlsend PN\ 1\!
When you are ready to go to a break, you switch to LiveAssist mode and click
on the goremote button on the sound panel in rdairplay when the current cart
is almost over. the cart will end and the music bed will start.
When you are ready to end the remote segment, you switch to Automatic mode
and click on the endremote button on the sound panel in rdairplay.
Crude and nasty but it can kind of work.
***IMPORTANT*** This currently ignores the very important issue of how we
get the remote audio into rdairplay to play over the top of the music bed in
the first place but that is for a later discussion.
1. How can we FADE DOWN the LOG machine and FADE UP the BED when going into
the remote break?
2. How can we loop the bed so that we can use a shorter audio file in the
BED cart? (If we cannot do this, we will need a bed that is longer than any
break we will ever have.
3. How can we FADE DOWN the BED and FADE UP the LOG machine when coming out
of the remote break?
What questions should I be asking that I am not?
What are better ways to do this?
Would it be better to put the macro carts for going into and out of the
breaks into the log in the correct spot rather than firing manually from the
sound panel?
Etc.
all the best,
drew
--
Bahamain Or Nuttin - http://www.bahamianornuttin.com

[drew Roberts]

Lorne,

Drew,
I just had a thought - with Rivendell maybe it can be easier then all of
us are thinking.
I have not tried any of this in real life, just theorizing here. But
for some reason I just had a thought on another subject and realized it
might be what you're looking for.
-Have your "remote" with the ability to VPN into your "station" network
and see your Rivendell server
-Set up your "remote" rivendell machine with a full copy of Rivendell,
but accessing the database on the main server. For this to work, you
might need to have a local copy of /var/snd - I've run into challenges
getting a fast enough mount when at a remote location, but it might work
via a mount too
-Set your "remote" machine to use the Core Audio Engine on the main
server back at your station (rdadmin --> Manage Hosts --> Core Audio
Engine). This means that if you play something on your "remote" machine
it'll use the audio engine back / audio card back at the studio, but use
the local RDAirplay for on-screen display and control
-Use Jack at each end - have Rivendell routed to use Jack at the studio.
Have OpenOB set to use Jack. Run OpenOB twice on each end - one as the
Send and one as the Receive. Then you have a 2 way audio link between
your studio and your remote site. You can then route your Rivendell
audio output to both your sound card plus your OpenOB send at the studio
and hear what's going over the air. At your remote end you can have
your OpenOB Receive going to your sound card output. Your OpenOB Send
can be set up to send your mic audio back to the studio.
-When on remote, you'd simply need to have the Studio RDAirplay stop
after what it is playing, and route its OpenOB Receive to the audio
output. Start up RDAirplay at the remote site, load the same log you'd
load in the studio and do a "make next" to bring your "remote" log to
the appropriate spot.
-when you hit "start" or such on the remote RDAirplay the audio will get
played at the studio machine (remember - we've set the remote machine to
use the studio's audio engine). You'll be able to hear the back-cue via
your OpenOB receive coming back from the studio.
-when you want the jock to go "live" from the remote, you simply have to
make RDAirplay stop (just as you would when in the studio) and turn on
the remote mic. The OpenOB Send will send your mic audio back down the
pipe to your studio and out to your output (since it doesn't go through
Rivendell at all it'll also have the added bonus of creating a
mix-minux)
-Estalish the VPN link from remote
-Start up and route to Jack as needed OpenOB on each end with the needed
number of instances
-RML the ability to inserrt a stop in the main log at the "studio"
machine (for when the remote starts)
-RML the ability to jump to the appropriate part of the log in the
Studio machine and resume playback on its RDAirplay(for when the remote
is done)
-Test to see what happens if / when the link between the sites gets
unexpectedly disconnected, crashes, etc.
Definitely would need a bunch of testing before putting it live, but I
can see if it works in reality then I think there is a possiblity here.
On the other hand - using Jack on each end with OpenOB for the
transport, you could do something similar by VPN'ing and VNCing into the
main RDAirplay machine, as you were first thinking. then all you'd need
to do is get the Jack audio routing working - which can be scripted with
jack_connect (or there is also an RML which can do jack connections,
although I've had limited luck in making that work)
Cheers,
Lorne Tyndale

Post by drew Roberts
Lorne,
thank you for your answer.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
Hi,
I think you're making this more difficult then it needs to be.

Possibly.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
-Have the audio coming from your remote on a separate channel on your
console in your on-air studio

We want to be able to do this in an air studio that does not have a

working

Post by drew Roberts
console.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
-Have that channel set up so that Rivendell can turn that remote

channel

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale
on / off via GPIO's

I am looking at learning the local audio card switcher functionality to

see

Post by drew Roberts
if I can do things that way.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
-For your remote site gear, since you're going to have a computer
already (to be able to see the on-air machine RDAirplay via VNC) use a
Linux box, install a "remote" copy of Rivendell on it that includes

your

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale
music bed audio
-At your remote site connect your mic and your "remote computer" audio
into a small mixer

We are planning on doing this.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
(or if you use something like a Tieline
Commander/iMix or Comrex Access with the mixer add on, just use the
inputs on that). If needed you can usually find inexpensive Bheringer
or Mackie's that have 4 to 8 channels that'll work for this type of
application

We are currently looking at a small Behringer USB mixer.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
When you want to go live from the remote site, you can have the remote
computer send the RML back to your studio computer to trigger your GPO
to turn on your "remote" channel.

I had not considered doing this remotely. I was doing the RML on the
airplay machine via panel buttons. I will have to ponder this.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
It can stop your playout from the
on-air studio Rivendell system or you could even have it set up that
when you want to go live from remote it'll insert an item with a "stop"
as the next item in the log (that is if you don't want to schedule the
breaks in the log before the remote, which might be easier).

I have made some improvements today from where I started this morning.
I have one button that inserts a macro "next" in the playing log. When

the

Post by drew Roberts
macro runs, it puts the machine in LiveAssist mode. It then starts the

bed

Post by drew Roberts
music. It then stops the log machine (I think this is redundant as I

should

Post by drew Roberts
already be in live assist mode.) It then sleeps for a bit. I had to add

the

Post by drew Roberts
sleep bit because the next item in the log was being "eaten."

Post by Lorne Tyndale
Do the
mixing of the voice / bed at the remote site with the mixer you have
there (you can have that audio on the remote site's Rivendell box) and
send all that audio back to your studio.

I will try this. I am not sure we want the bed being compressed and
uncompressed on the link.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
When you want the studio to
resume playout send another RML down the pipe to turn the "remote"
channel back off and do a Play Next in Rivendell. Your audio starts
back up coming from your on-air Rivendell machine.

Again, I have a button on the sound panel to do this. This button puts

the

Post by drew Roberts
machine back into Automatic mode. It then starts the next cart in the

log.

Post by drew Roberts
It then fades the bed down. It then stop the bed playing.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
The biggest concern would be if your network drops for some reason -

you

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale
could end up with dead air. But the same situation could happen with
the setup you've described below. As a backup it might be an idea to
tie it all into a silence detector which would - after a certain amount
of time - send your on-air machine a "play next" command in the event
that something like that happens.

Thank you for this idea of the silence detector. I will have to figure

out

Post by drew Roberts
how to do it. If I have a looping bed or a long enough bed, I would not
want to detect silence on the rdairplay output. I think I would need to
detect it on the incoming audio from the remote site.
I think if I figure the switcher stuff out, I will need to grab the

remote

Post by drew Roberts
input on remote start and release it on remote end.
all the best,
drew

Post by Lorne Tyndale
Lorne Tyndale

Post by drew Roberts
Hi,
I am looking for thoughts on possible ways to do this.
Let's say we go on a remote and have no one in the air studio.
We can remote into (say vnc over an ssh tunnel) the rdairplay

machine to

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale

Post by drew Roberts
control things.
We can monitor the broadcast signal from an FM receiver at the remote
location.
We can set a music bed on an RDAirPlay sound panel button.
We can set a music bed on an RDPanel sound panel button.
We can set a music bed in an RDCartSlot cart slot.
We can set up a macro to go to a remote break and put it on an

RDAirPlay

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale

Post by drew Roberts
sound panel button.
We can set up a macro to come back from a remote break and put it

on an

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale

Post by drew Roberts
RDAirPlay sound panel button.
RN /home/rduser/goremote.sh!
will fire the following bashscript
#!/bin/bash
# goremote.sh
# rml commands to go to start a remote
rmlsend PS\ 1\!
rmlsend PP\ S1\ 1\ 1\!
RN /home/rduser/endremote.sh!
will fire the following bashscript
#!/bin/bash
# endremote.sh
# rml commands to go to end a remote
rmlsend PT\ S1\ 1\ 1\!
rmlsend PN\ 1\!
When you are ready to go to a break, you switch to LiveAssist mode

and

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale

Post by drew Roberts
click on the goremote button on the sound panel in rdairplay when the
current cart is almost over. the cart will end and the music bed will

start.

Post by drew Roberts
When you are ready to end the remote segment, you switch to Automatic

mode

Post by drew Roberts
and click on the endremote button on the sound panel in rdairplay.
Crude and nasty but it can kind of work.
***IMPORTANT*** This currently ignores the very important issue of

how we

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale

Post by drew Roberts
get the remote audio into rdairplay to play over the top of the

music bed

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale

Post by drew Roberts
in the first place but that is for a later discussion.
1. How can we FADE DOWN the LOG machine and FADE UP the BED when

going

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale
into

Post by drew Roberts
the remote break?
2. How can we loop the bed so that we can use a shorter audio file

in the

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale

Post by drew Roberts
BED cart? (If we cannot do this, we will need a bed that is longer

than

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale
any

Post by drew Roberts
break we will ever have.
3. How can we FADE DOWN the BED and FADE UP the LOG machine when

coming

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale
out

Post by drew Roberts
of the remote break?
What questions should I be asking that I am not?
What are better ways to do this?
Would it be better to put the macro carts for going into and out of

the

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale

Post by drew Roberts
breaks into the log in the correct spot rather than firing manually

from

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale

Post by drew Roberts
the sound panel?
Etc.
all the best,
drew
--
Bahamain Or Nuttin - http://www.bahamianornuttin.com
<http://www.bahamianornuttin.com/><hr>_____________________

__________________________

Post by drew Roberts
Rivendell-dev mailing list
http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev

--
Bahamain Or Nuttin - http://www.bahamianornuttin.com
<http://www.bahamianornuttin.com/>

[drew Roberts]

Lorne,

thanks for the input. Not sure we want to go this way, but I will comment
on my thinking for the future and for the benefit of any interested parties
anyway.

Drew,
I just had a thought - with Rivendell maybe it can be easier then all of
us are thinking.
I have not tried any of this in real life, just theorizing here. But
for some reason I just had a thought on another subject and realized it
might be what you're looking for.
-Have your "remote" with the ability to VPN into your "station" network
and see your Rivendell server

This should be doable.

-Set up your "remote" rivendell machine with a full copy of Rivendell,
but accessing the database on the main server. For this to work, you
might need to have a local copy of /var/snd - I've run into challenges
getting a fast enough mount when at a remote location, but it might work
via a mount too

I would not want to try a mount, but a local copy that was kept up to date
every night should be doable.

-Set your "remote" machine to use the Core Audio Engine on the main
server back at your station (rdadmin --> Manage Hosts --> Core Audio
Engine).

Either all of my Rivendell systems are too old to have this setting or it
is not there in the chain.

This means that if you play something on your "remote" machine
it'll use the audio engine back / audio card back at the studio, but use
the local RDAirplay for on-screen display and control

The question is, where will it pull the wav file from? The studio's
/var/snd, or the local /var/snd. For this to make sense, I think you would
wan't the studio's /var/snd.

-Use Jack at each end - have Rivendell routed to use Jack at the studio.

Not always doable if we have an ASI card in the studio. Or have the
differences between the ASI "model" and the alsa/jack "model" been sorted?

Have OpenOB set to use Jack. Run OpenOB twice on each end - one as the
Send and one as the Receive. Then you have a 2 way audio link between
your studio and your remote site. You can then route your Rivendell
audio output to both your sound card plus your OpenOB send at the studio
and hear what's going over the air. At your remote end you can have
your OpenOB Receive going to your sound card output. Your OpenOB Send
can be set up to send your mic audio back to the studio.
-When on remote, you'd simply need to have the Studio RDAirplay stop
after what it is playing, and route its OpenOB Receive to the audio
output. Start up RDAirplay at the remote site, load the same log you'd
load in the studio and do a "make next" to bring your "remote" log to
the appropriate spot.
-when you hit "start" or such on the remote RDAirplay the audio will get
played at the studio machine (remember - we've set the remote machine to
use the studio's audio engine). You'll be able to hear the back-cue via
your OpenOB receive coming back from the studio.
-when you want the jock to go "live" from the remote, you simply have to
make RDAirplay stop (just as you would when in the studio) and turn on
the remote mic. The OpenOB Send will send your mic audio back down the
pipe to your studio and out to your output (since it doesn't go through
Rivendell at all it'll also have the added bonus of creating a
mix-minux)

I will have to think this last bit all through very carefully.

-Estalish the VPN link from remote
-Start up and route to Jack as needed OpenOB on each end with the needed
number of instances
-RML the ability to inserrt a stop in the main log at the "studio"
machine (for when the remote starts)
-RML the ability to jump to the appropriate part of the log in the
Studio machine and resume playback on its RDAirplay(for when the remote
is done)
-Test to see what happens if / when the link between the sites gets
unexpectedly disconnected, crashes, etc.
Definitely would need a bunch of testing before putting it live, but I
can see if it works in reality then I think there is a possiblity here.
On the other hand - using Jack on each end with OpenOB for the
transport, you could do something similar by VPN'ing and VNCing into the
main RDAirplay machine, as you were first thinking. then all you'd need
to do is get the Jack audio routing working - which can be scripted with
jack_connect (or there is also an RML which can do jack connections,
although I've had limited luck in making that work)

This is where we are with our thinking / testing so far:

(I just thought of a problem arising from the fact that our "real" machine
has an ASI card while our "test" machine does not.)

Let's talk the test set up first.

Remote side:

Mic going into a mixer. Outputs of mixer going to a USB sound card on a pi
3. OpenOB running on the pi 3 (alsa mode, I was ding jack and all was
working fine a day ago iirc, but today jack / qjackctl seems to be causing
reboots so I switched to alsa.) OpenOB sending using opus codec to OpenOB
on the other side of a VPN.

openob -v 10.8.0.1 test-tx-node test-link tx 10.8.0.1 -a alsa -d hw:1,0


Studio side:

This machine has 2 different USB sound cards. OpenOB running on one in alsa
mode.

openob -v 10.8.0.1 test-rx-node test-link rx -a alsa -d hw:0,0

rdAirPlay running on the other sound card using jack. The line out of the
OpenOB card is going into the line in of the rivendell sound card. Also
running in jack is Jack Mixer and meterbridge.

Jack has been set up with 2 input channels.

The rdairplay outputs are fed into channel 1 and the sound card's inputs
are fed into channel 2. (Remember: OpenOB sound card line out -> rivendell
jack sound card line in -> Jack Mixer channel 2.)

The main outs of Jack Mixer (mixed rdairplay and remote mic sound) are sent
to system out which is currently connected to a speaker but which
represents the rest of the "air chain."

There are three buttons set up on panel S:1.

S:1 C1 R1 -> Remote Music Bed: Plays a music cart that has our bed in it
S:1 C1 R2 -> Insert Inline Go Remote: Plays cart 050006
S:1 C1 R3 -> End Remote: Plays cart 050003

Cart 050006 is a macro cart with 1 line:

001 PX 1 050004!

Cart 050003 is a macro cart with 1 line:

001 RN /home/rduser/endremote.sh!

Cart 050004 is a macro cart with 2 lines:

001 RN /home/rduser/inlinegoremote.sh!
002 SP 1000!

IIRC, the second line was needed to stop it from eating the next entry in
the log.

Current contents of the bash scripts:

inlinegoremote.sh cart 050004:

#!/bin/bash
# inlinegoremote.sh
# rml commands to start a remote

rmlsend PM\ 1\!
rmlsend PP\ S1\ 1\ 1\!
rmlsend PD\ S1\ 1\ 1\ -80\ 1\!
rmlsend PD\ S1\ 1\ 1\ 0\ 10000\!
#rmlsend SP\ 100\!
#rmlsend PD\ S1\ 1\ 1\ 0\ 100000\!
#rmlsend SP\ 1000\!
rmlsend PS\ 1\ 10000\!
rmlsend SP\ 10\!

endremote.sh cart 050003:
#!/bin/bash
# endremote.sh
# rml commands to end a remote

rmlsend PM\ 2\!
rmlsend PN\ 1\!
#rmlsend PD\ S1\ 1\ 1\ -40\ 15000\!
rmlsend PT\ S1\ 1\ 1\ 0\ 0\ 5000\!

How we are using it so far:

We keep the mic channel in Jack Mixer muted while the log is playing. When
the song just before we want to go to a remote is playing, we click on:

S:1 C1 R2 -> Insert Inline Go Remote: Plays cart 050006 which runs: PX 1
050004! which puts cart 050004 in the log right after the song that is
playing with a segue transition (that is our set default.)

As the current song is about to end, we unmute the Jack Mixer channel 2,
the mic channel.

When the current song ends / hits the segue point? The inserted inline
macro cart 050004 fires which runs the bash script inlinegoremote.sh...

We can start talking after we unmute the mic, while the song in the log is
still playing and during the transition to the music bed if we like.

What we are trying to get smooth:

As the song is fading down, the bed should fire low and fade up (with
overlap if we get it right.)

We talk, talk, talk, as the bed plays.

When we are done, we click on S:1 C1 R3 -> End Remote: Plays cart 050003

What we are trying to get smooth:

We want the bed to fade down and end and the next song in the log to fire
and fade in as the bed is fading down.

I am not sure I understand the interaction of all of the markers set on the
cuts in rdlibrary, the seque transition, and the ducking and fading of the
panel buttons in the rml commands to get this properly smooth at this point.

If anyone understands this stuff deeply, I would like some pointers.

If anyone would like to work together to make a nice little tutorial
covering this in more detail than the manual covers it, please let me know.

all the best,

drew

Cheers,
Lorne Tyndale

Post by drew Roberts
Lorne,
thank you for your answer.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
Hi,
I think you're making this more difficult then it needs to be.

Possibly.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
-Have the audio coming from your remote on a separate channel on your
console in your on-air studio

We want to be able to do this in an air studio that does not have a

working

Post by drew Roberts
console.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
-Have that channel set up so that Rivendell can turn that remote

channel

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale
on / off via GPIO's

I am looking at learning the local audio card switcher functionality to

see

Post by drew Roberts
if I can do things that way.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
-For your remote site gear, since you're going to have a computer
already (to be able to see the on-air machine RDAirplay via VNC) use a
Linux box, install a "remote" copy of Rivendell on it that includes

your

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale
music bed audio
-At your remote site connect your mic and your "remote computer" audio
into a small mixer

We are planning on doing this.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
(or if you use something like a Tieline
Commander/iMix or Comrex Access with the mixer add on, just use the
inputs on that). If needed you can usually find inexpensive Bheringer
or Mackie's that have 4 to 8 channels that'll work for this type of
application

We are currently looking at a small Behringer USB mixer.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
When you want to go live from the remote site, you can have the remote
computer send the RML back to your studio computer to trigger your GPO
to turn on your "remote" channel.

I had not considered doing this remotely. I was doing the RML on the
airplay machine via panel buttons. I will have to ponder this.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
It can stop your playout from the
on-air studio Rivendell system or you could even have it set up that
when you want to go live from remote it'll insert an item with a "stop"
as the next item in the log (that is if you don't want to schedule the
breaks in the log before the remote, which might be easier).

I have made some improvements today from where I started this morning.
I have one button that inserts a macro "next" in the playing log. When

the

Post by drew Roberts
macro runs, it puts the machine in LiveAssist mode. It then starts the

bed

Post by drew Roberts
music. It then stops the log machine (I think this is redundant as I

should

Post by drew Roberts
already be in live assist mode.) It then sleeps for a bit. I had to add

the

Post by drew Roberts
sleep bit because the next item in the log was being "eaten."

Post by Lorne Tyndale
Do the
mixing of the voice / bed at the remote site with the mixer you have
there (you can have that audio on the remote site's Rivendell box) and
send all that audio back to your studio.

I will try this. I am not sure we want the bed being compressed and
uncompressed on the link.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
When you want the studio to
resume playout send another RML down the pipe to turn the "remote"
channel back off and do a Play Next in Rivendell. Your audio starts
back up coming from your on-air Rivendell machine.

Again, I have a button on the sound panel to do this. This button puts

the

Post by drew Roberts
machine back into Automatic mode. It then starts the next cart in the

log.

Post by drew Roberts
It then fades the bed down. It then stop the bed playing.

Post by Lorne Tyndale
The biggest concern would be if your network drops for some reason -

you

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale
could end up with dead air. But the same situation could happen with
the setup you've described below. As a backup it might be an idea to
tie it all into a silence detector which would - after a certain amount
of time - send your on-air machine a "play next" command in the event
that something like that happens.

Thank you for this idea of the silence detector. I will have to figure

out

Post by drew Roberts
how to do it. If I have a looping bed or a long enough bed, I would not
want to detect silence on the rdairplay output. I think I would need to
detect it on the incoming audio from the remote site.
I think if I figure the switcher stuff out, I will need to grab the

remote

Post by drew Roberts
input on remote start and release it on remote end.
all the best,
drew

Post by Lorne Tyndale
Lorne Tyndale

Post by drew Roberts
Hi,
I am looking for thoughts on possible ways to do this.
Let's say we go on a remote and have no one in the air studio.
We can remote into (say vnc over an ssh tunnel) the rdairplay

machine to

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale

Post by drew Roberts
control things.
We can monitor the broadcast signal from an FM receiver at the remote
location.
We can set a music bed on an RDAirPlay sound panel button.
We can set a music bed on an RDPanel sound panel button.
We can set a music bed in an RDCartSlot cart slot.
We can set up a macro to go to a remote break and put it on an

RDAirPlay

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale

Post by drew Roberts
sound panel button.
We can set up a macro to come back from a remote break and put it

on an

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale

Post by drew Roberts
RDAirPlay sound panel button.
RN /home/rduser/goremote.sh!
will fire the following bashscript
#!/bin/bash
# goremote.sh
# rml commands to go to start a remote
rmlsend PS\ 1\!
rmlsend PP\ S1\ 1\ 1\!
RN /home/rduser/endremote.sh!
will fire the following bashscript
#!/bin/bash
# endremote.sh
# rml commands to go to end a remote
rmlsend PT\ S1\ 1\ 1\!
rmlsend PN\ 1\!
When you are ready to go to a break, you switch to LiveAssist mode

and

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale

Post by drew Roberts
click on the goremote button on the sound panel in rdairplay when the
current cart is almost over. the cart will end and the music bed will

start.

Post by drew Roberts
When you are ready to end the remote segment, you switch to Automatic

mode

Post by drew Roberts
and click on the endremote button on the sound panel in rdairplay.
Crude and nasty but it can kind of work.
***IMPORTANT*** This currently ignores the very important issue of

how we

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale

Post by drew Roberts
get the remote audio into rdairplay to play over the top of the

music bed

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale

Post by drew Roberts
in the first place but that is for a later discussion.
1. How can we FADE DOWN the LOG machine and FADE UP the BED when

going

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale
into

Post by drew Roberts
the remote break?
2. How can we loop the bed so that we can use a shorter audio file

in the

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale

Post by drew Roberts
BED cart? (If we cannot do this, we will need a bed that is longer

than

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale
any

Post by drew Roberts
break we will ever have.
3. How can we FADE DOWN the BED and FADE UP the LOG machine when

coming

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale
out

Post by drew Roberts
of the remote break?
What questions should I be asking that I am not?
What are better ways to do this?
Would it be better to put the macro carts for going into and out of

the

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale

Post by drew Roberts
breaks into the log in the correct spot rather than firing manually

from

Post by drew Roberts

Post by Lorne Tyndale

Post by drew Roberts
the sound panel?
Etc.
all the best,
drew
--
Bahamain Or Nuttin - http://www.bahamianornuttin.com
<http://www.bahamianornuttin.com/><hr>_____________________

__________________________

Post by drew Roberts
Rivendell-dev mailing list
http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev

--
Bahamain Or Nuttin - http://www.bahamianornuttin.com
<http://www.bahamianornuttin.com/>

[Cowboy]

I'm gonna cut down some of the quotes of quotes of quotes...

Post by drew Roberts
Lorne,
thanks for the input. Not sure we want to go this way, but I will comment
on my thinking for the future and for the benefit of any interested parties
anyway.

-Have your "remote" with the ability to VPN into your "station" network
and see your Rivendell server

This should be doable.

Easily do-able.
ssh tunnel, or if there's a firewall involved a reverse ssh tunnel.
VNC can be a wonderful tool, but it's only a tool.

Post by drew Roberts

-Set up your "remote" rivendell machine with a full copy of Rivendell,
but accessing the database on the main server. For this to work, you
might need to have a local copy of /var/snd - I've run into challenges
getting a fast enough mount when at a remote location, but it might work
via a mount too

I would not want to try a mount, but a local copy that was kept up to date
every night should be doable.

Depends on the bandwidth of the connection.
On a 10BaseT probably not. On a 100BaseTx maybe.
Across a public internet, no !

Post by drew Roberts

-Set your "remote" machine to use the Core Audio Engine on the main
server back at your station (rdadmin --> Manage Hosts --> Core Audio
Engine).

Either all of my Rivendell systems are too old to have this setting or it
is not there in the chain.

Probably, your stuff is old, but again, consider the bandwidth of the link.
I have 14 ( virtual ) machines using 4 sound cards generating 14 streams.
It does work, but it's at bus speed.
Remote... uh... maybe. Probably not with today's tech.

Post by drew Roberts
The question is, where will it pull the wav file from? The studio's
/var/snd, or the local /var/snd.

The way it was outlined, the local sound file through the local airplay
using the remote sound card.
Quite workable, we do it, but we're doing it across a gigabit network
through all of one ( count 'em... ONE ! ) gigabit switch.

Post by drew Roberts

-when you want the jock to go "live" from the remote, you simply have to
make RDAirplay stop (just as you would when in the studio) and turn on
the remote mic. The OpenOB Send will send your mic audio back down the
pipe to your studio and out to your output (since it doesn't go through
Rivendell at all it'll also have the added bonus of creating a
mix-minux)

I will have to think this last bit all through very carefully.

And again, consider the bandwidth of the link, and the latency.

Post by drew Roberts
(I just thought of a problem arising from the fact that our "real" machine
has an ASI card while our "test" machine does not.)

I'm not sure that's necessarily a problem, unless you have an Livewire
ASI card ?

Post by drew Roberts
As the song is fading down, the bed should fire low and fade up (with
overlap if we get it right.)
We talk, talk, talk, as the bed plays.
When we are done, we click on S:1 C1 R3 -> End Remote: Plays cart 050003
We want the bed to fade down and end and the next song in the log to fire
and fade in as the bed is fading down.

If I wanted to do this unattended, I would do it the way I've done it in the past,
which depends on an audio "processing" chain with a reasonably wide
dynamic range, and a fair amount of controllability.
If you can control the slew, and especially the slew rate, you're in heaven !

If you're doing mono, and you have processors available that will do true
dual mono, but also have a "linked stereo" mode, it gets really, really easy.
It's still do-able even if you don't.
The "trick" is understanding that if you have an AGC with a 40db input range,
you can play a bed at -30, feed mic at -10, the bed will be "faded down" 20db
by the following AGC transmitter processor.
When the announcer stops talking, the music is faded up 20.
Follow all this with a transmitter processor, so you get consistency at the
final output, and you'll like the results, provided you can tweek the attack and
decay times independently, else you'll get pumping.
You don't want it to pump if the announcer takes a breath.
Very fast attack, but very slow release. Exactly how fast, and how slow,
will take a little practice.

It's real do-able in mono.
You feed one source into L and another into R ( obviously enough ) but you
also mix the L+R output back to mono.
The linked stereo mode has the higher input level controlling the fade of both.
I ran WSLR this way for many years, and got nothing but compliments
on the way it sounded so "live" when it was most certainly automated.

Do keep in mind, like tweeking any audio processor, if you get one parameter
wrong, "train wreck" is an understatement.
If you want it to sound like a cat dying, I can tell you how to do that, too.
If someone accidentally leaves a mic open, well, see "train wreck" above.

Also, if you have all the pieces parts, AND you happen to be in the Caribbean,
and will pay expenses, I'll come show you for free !
( see, I really *AM* easy to get along with ! )

[Fred Gleason]

Post by drew Roberts
I would not want to try a mount, but a local copy that was kept up to date
every night should be doable.
-Set your "remote" machine to use the Core Audio Engine on the main
server back at your station (rdadmin --> Manage Hosts --> Core Audio
Engine).

If you’re going this route, then there’s no need to for a /var/snd mount on the remote machine at all. The bandwidth requirements will be low enough that the chances of getting it to work reasonably well over public Internet are actually quite good. You will however need a VPN, as a bidirectional path is required so metering packets from caed(8) can make it back to the controlling workstation. The specific UDP ports used for those backfields are dynamically negotiated by Rivendell for each play or record handle, so crafting a set of NAT rules to handle it would be dicey at best.

Cheers!


|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Chief Developer |
| | Paravel Systems |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| A room without books is like a body without a soul. |
| -- Cicero |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|

[Cowboy]

Post by Fred Gleason
The specific UDP ports used for those backfields are dynamically negotiated
by Rivendell for each play or record handle, so crafting a set of NAT rules
to handle it would be dicey at best.

Unless you're already acquainted with the ESTABLISHED and RELATED
qualifiers in iptables syntax.

[drew Roberts]

Cowboy,

Post by Fred Gleason

Post by Fred Gleason
The specific UDP ports used for those backfields are dynamically

negotiated

Post by Fred Gleason
by Rivendell for each play or record handle, so crafting a set of NAT

rules

Post by Fred Gleason
to handle it would be dicey at best.

Unless you're already acquainted with the ESTABLISHED and RELATED
qualifiers in iptables syntax.

My Firewall FU is not what it once was. ~;-)

Post by Fred Gleason
--
Cowboy
http://cowboy.cwf1.com
A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own
opinion.
-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"

all the best,

drew

[drew Roberts]

Fred,

Post by drew Roberts
I would not want to try a mount, but a local copy that was kept up to date
every night should be doable.
-Set your "remote" machine to use the Core Audio Engine on the main
server back at your station (rdadmin --> Manage Hosts --> Core Audio
Engine).
If you’re going this route, then there’s no need to for a /var/snd mount
on the remote machine at all.

This is not the route we are planning or currently testing but it is
intriguing enough that I want to experiment with it at some point. What
version did this option appear in?

Post by drew Roberts
The bandwidth requirements will be low enough that the chances of getting
it to work reasonably well over public Internet are actually quite good.
You will however need a VPN, as a bidirectional path is required so
metering packets from caed(8) can make it back to the controlling
workstation. The specific UDP ports used for those backfields are
dynamically negotiated by Rivendell for each play or record handle, so
crafting a set of NAT rules to handle it would be dicey at best.

A VPN is not a problem, we are using one for the solution we are testing
now.

Post by drew Roberts
Cheers!

all the best,

drew

Post by drew Roberts
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Chief Developer |
| | Paravel Systems |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| A room without books is like a body without a soul. |
| -- Cicero |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|

[Fred Gleason]

This is not the route we are planning or currently testing but it is intriguing enough that I want to experiment with it at some point. What version did this option appear in?

v2.0.0beta1, released 10/11/2010. Look in the ‘System Services’ section in RDAdmin->ManageHosts under the relevant host to configure it.

The primary current use for this mode is virtualization setups —e.g. centralize all of the audio I/O on a central host and then run AirPlay instances on thin clients or virtual hosts. In that mode, it’s pretty mature at this point. I don’t know of anyone who has used it to separate the caed(8) and GUI components over a WAN as yet, but it should be doable.

Cheers!


|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Chief Developer |
| | Paravel Systems |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| A room without books is like a body without a soul. |
| -- Cicero |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|

[drew Roberts]

Fred,

Post by drew Roberts
This is not the route we are planning or currently testing but it is
intriguing enough that I want to experiment with it at some point. What
version did this option appear in?
v2.0.0beta1, released 10/11/2010. Look in the ‘System Services’ section in
RDAdmin->ManageHosts under the relevant host to configure it.

I just checked a machine running 2.12.0 and I don't see the button. Does it
not show itself in stand alone setups?

Post by drew Roberts
The primary current use for this mode is virtualization setups —e.g.
centralize all of the audio I/O on a central host and then run AirPlay
instances on thin clients or virtual hosts. In that mode, it’s pretty
mature at this point. I don’t know of anyone who has used it to separate
the caed(8) and GUI components over a WAN as yet, but it should be doable.

I will try and play with this later after we have earned some money from
this work...

Post by drew Roberts
Cheers!
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Chief Developer |
| | Paravel Systems |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| A room without books is like a body without a soul. |
| -- Cicero |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|

all the best,

drew

[Fred Gleason]

Post by drew Roberts
I just checked a machine running 2.12.0 and I don't see the button.

You should see two dropdown menus in the ‘System Services’ box. The ‘HTTP Xport’ control allows you to offload RDXport processes (audio imports, exports and similar CPU-intensive tasks) to the designated host, while the ‘Core Audio Engine’ dropdown configures the system to use the audio resources on the selected host.

Post by drew Roberts
Does it not show itself in stand alone setups?

They will still be there, but the only available choice will be ‘localhost’.

Cheers!


|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Chief Developer |
| | Paravel Systems |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| A room without books is like a body without a soul. |
| -- Cicero |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|

[drew Roberts]

Fred,

Post by drew Roberts
I just checked a machine running 2.12.0 and I don't see the button.
You should see two dropdown menus in the ‘System Services’ box. The ‘HTTP
Xport’ control allows you to offload RDXport processes (audio imports,
exports and similar CPU-intensive tasks) to the designated host, while the
‘Core Audio Engine’ dropdown configures the system to use the audio
resources on the selected host.
Does it not show itself in stand alone setups?
They will still be there, but the only available choice will be ‘localhost’.

Thanks, I was being dense and looking for a button in with the main button
grid.

Now to figure out what to do with it...

Post by drew Roberts
Cheers!
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Chief Developer |
| | Paravel Systems |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| A room without books is like a body without a soul. |
| -- Cicero |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
all the best,

drew

[Fred Gleason]

Post by drew Roberts
(I just thought of a problem arising from the fact that our "real" machine
has an ASI card while our "test" machine does not.)

Mostly irrelevant for this discussion (although the ASIs are a bit more tolerant of latency in the card <==> storage path).
If you can make it work with an ALSA setup, then I’d expect no problems with an ASI one at all.

Cheers!


|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Chief Developer |
| | Paravel Systems |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| A room without books is like a body without a soul. |
| -- Cicero |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|

[drew Roberts]

Fred,

Post by drew Roberts
(I just thought of a problem arising from the fact that our "real" machine
has an ASI card while our "test" machine does not.)
Mostly irrelevant for this discussion (although the ASIs are a bit more
tolerant of latency in the card <==> storage path).
If you can make it work with an ALSA setup, then I’d expect no problems
with an ASI one at all.

As I said above, the problem is that jack is running on the card in the
test system that stands in the place of the ASI card in the main system.

The last time we spoke on this issue, it was not recommended / possible to
run jack on the ASI card. Has anything changed?

Post by drew Roberts
Cheers!

all the best,

drew

Post by drew Roberts
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Chief Developer |
| | Paravel Systems |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| A room without books is like a body without a soul. |
| -- Cicero |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|

[Rob Landry]

Post by drew Roberts
The last time we spoke on this issue, it was not recommended / possible to
run jack on the ASI card. Has anything changed?

I tried to solve this problem by using an ALSA driver for the ASI card
instead of the HPI driver. But I couldn't get JACK to start.


Rob
--
Я таЌ, гЎе ребята тПлкПвые,
Я таЌ, гЎе плакаты "ВперёЎ",
ГЎе песМО рабПчОе МПвые
СтраМа труЎПвая пПёт.

Post by drew Roberts
Cheers!
all the best,
drew 
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. |              Chief Developer            
|
|                           |              Paravel Systems            
|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
|          A room without books is like a body without a soul.        
|
|                                         -- Cicero                   
|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
--
Bahamain Or Nuttin - http://www.bahamianornuttin.com

[drew Roberts]

Cowboy,

Post by Cowboy
I'm gonna cut down some of the quotes of quotes of quotes...

~;-)

Post by Cowboy

Post by drew Roberts
Lorne,
thanks for the input. Not sure we want to go this way, but I will comment
on my thinking for the future and for the benefit of any interested

parties

Post by drew Roberts
anyway.

-Have your "remote" with the ability to VPN into your "station" network
and see your Rivendell server

This should be doable.

Easily do-able.
ssh tunnel, or if there's a firewall involved a reverse ssh tunnel.
VNC can be a wonderful tool, but it's only a tool.

Yes, this was not the doable I was referring to.

We are doing vnc over an ssh tunnel for years. We are testing OpenOB over
a vpn. The OpenOB in the studio and the rdairplay machine in the studio may
not be on the same network when all is said and done.

Post by Cowboy

Post by drew Roberts

-Set up your "remote" rivendell machine with a full copy of Rivendell,
but accessing the database on the main server. For this to work, you
might need to have a local copy of /var/snd - I've run into challenges
getting a fast enough mount when at a remote location, but it might

work

Post by drew Roberts

via a mount too

I would not want to try a mount, but a local copy that was kept up to

date

Post by drew Roberts
every night should be doable.

Depends on the bandwidth of the connection.
On a 10BaseT probably not. On a 100BaseTx maybe.
Across a public internet, no !

Post by drew Roberts

-Set your "remote" machine to use the Core Audio Engine on the main
server back at your station (rdadmin --> Manage Hosts --> Core Audio
Engine).

Either all of my Rivendell systems are too old to have this setting or it
is not there in the chain.

Probably, your stuff is old, but again, consider the bandwidth of the link.
I have 14 ( virtual ) machines using 4 sound cards generating 14 streams.
It does work, but it's at bus speed.
Remote... uh... maybe. Probably not with today's tech.

Post by drew Roberts
The question is, where will it pull the wav file from? The studio's
/var/snd, or the local /var/snd.

The way it was outlined, the local sound file through the local airplay
using the remote sound card.

??? In my discussion, I hope I referred to the locations as remote and
studio.

In yours just above, is the local sound file and the local airplay at the
location where the remote is happening? And is the remote sound card in the
studio?

If so, is the pcm stream going/streaming over the vpn?


Quite workable, we do it, but we're doing it across a gigabit network

Post by Cowboy
through all of one ( count 'em... ONE ! ) gigabit switch.

Post by drew Roberts

-when you want the jock to go "live" from the remote, you simply have

to

Post by drew Roberts

make RDAirplay stop (just as you would when in the studio) and turn on
the remote mic. The OpenOB Send will send your mic audio back down the
pipe to your studio and out to your output (since it doesn't go through
Rivendell at all it'll also have the added bonus of creating a
mix-minux)

I will have to think this last bit all through very carefully.

And again, consider the bandwidth of the link, and the latency.

Post by drew Roberts
(I just thought of a problem arising from the fact that our "real"

machine

Post by drew Roberts
has an ASI card while our "test" machine does not.)

I'm not sure that's necessarily a problem, unless you have an Livewire
ASI card ?

I thought of the problem with the ASI card, I did not elaborate on it. It
is not Livewire.

The problem is that in the test system, I have jack running on the sound
card that will be the parallel of the ASI card in the actual system where
jack is not running. Therefore, I will have to find another way to some of
the Jack Mixer mic muting and what not.

Post by Cowboy

Post by drew Roberts
As the song is fading down, the bed should fire low and fade up (with
overlap if we get it right.)
We talk, talk, talk, as the bed plays.
When we are done, we click on S:1 C1 R3 -> End Remote: Plays cart 050003
We want the bed to fade down and end and the next song in the log to fire
and fade in as the bed is fading down.

If I wanted to do this unattended, I would do it the way I've done it in the past,
which depends on an audio "processing" chain with a reasonably wide
dynamic range, and a fair amount of controllability.
If you can control the slew, and especially the slew rate, you're in heaven !

I am not trying to be as fancy as you seem to think by this comment. All I
am really trying to accomplish is for something that sounds like a segue
between the last song before going to remote and the music bed of the
remote and then another segue between the music bed and the first song
after the remote on coming out of the remote.

Your exposition does give me some ideas and something for us to ponder.

Post by Cowboy
If you're doing mono, and you have processors available that will do true
dual mono, but also have a "linked stereo" mode, it gets really, really easy.
It's still do-able even if you don't.
The "trick" is understanding that if you have an AGC with a 40db input range,
you can play a bed at -30, feed mic at -10, the bed will be "faded down" 20db
by the following AGC transmitter processor.
When the announcer stops talking, the music is faded up 20.
Follow all this with a transmitter processor, so you get consistency at the
final output, and you'll like the results, provided you can tweek the attack and
decay times independently, else you'll get pumping.
You don't want it to pump if the announcer takes a breath.
Very fast attack, but very slow release. Exactly how fast, and how slow,
will take a little practice.
It's real do-able in mono.
You feed one source into L and another into R ( obviously enough ) but you
also mix the L+R output back to mono.
The linked stereo mode has the higher input level controlling the fade of both.
I ran WSLR this way for many years, and got nothing but compliments
on the way it sounded so "live" when it was most certainly automated.
Do keep in mind, like tweeking any audio processor, if you get one parameter
wrong, "train wreck" is an understatement.
If you want it to sound like a cat dying, I can tell you how to do that, too.
If someone accidentally leaves a mic open, well, see "train wreck" above.
Also, if you have all the pieces parts, AND you happen to be in the Caribbean,
and will pay expenses, I'll come show you for free !
( see, I really *AM* easy to get along with ! )

~;-)


all the best,

drew

Post by Cowboy
--
Cowboy
http://cowboy.cwf1.com
A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own
opinion.
-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
_______________________________________________
Rivendell-dev mailing list
http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev

[Rob Landry]

We are doing vnc over an ssh tunnel  for years. We are testing OpenOB over a
vpn. The OpenOB in the studio and the rdairplay machine in the studio may
not be on the same network when all is said and done.

Be aware that SSH tunnels do not pass UDP (since SSH is a TCP protocol).
If you want to it to pass RML commands, they'll need to be encapsulated in
TCP packets.

I ran into this problem at a Boston-area station that needed to receive
RML commands from a Rivendell system at a co-owned Cape Cod station.


Rob

[Lorne Tyndale]

Fred,

So am I correct in understanding - if you use the option to have a
workstation use caed on another host, will the instance of caed that is
actually playing the audio out to the sound card use the /var/snd that
it sees on its local machine, or will the "remote" rdairplay (running on
the thin client or similar) still be accessing the audio files and
sending them back to the centralized caed?

Just looking for clarification.

Thanks!

Lorne Tyndale

This is not the route we are planning or currently testing but it is intriguing enough that I want to experiment with it at some point. What version did this option appear in?

v2.0.0beta1, released 10/11/2010. Look in the ‘System Services’ section in RDAdmin->ManageHosts under the relevant host to configure it.
The primary current use for this mode is virtualization setups —e.g. centralize all of the audio I/O on a central host and then run AirPlay instances on thin clients or virtual hosts. In that mode, it’s pretty mature at this point. I don’t know of anyone who has used it to separate the caed(8) and GUI components over a WAN as yet, but it should be doable.
Cheers!
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Chief Developer |
| | Paravel Systems |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| A room without books is like a body without a soul. |
| -- Cicero |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|<hr>_______________________________________________
Rivendell-dev mailing list
http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev

[Fred Gleason]

Post by Lorne Tyndale
So am I correct in understanding - if you use the option to have a
workstation use caed on another host, will the instance of caed that is
actually playing the audio out to the sound card use the /var/snd that
it sees on its local machine, or will the "remote" rdairplay (running on
the thin client or similar) still be accessing the audio files and
sending them back to the centralized caed?

Each caed(8) instance uses the ‘/var/snd’ data that is available on its own local system. Hence, the remote system will not need to mount /var/snd in order to play it.

There are a few additional caveats to be aware of:

1) For best results, you may also want to point the ‘HTTP Xport’ control to use a studio-based system as well. RDAirPlay will work correctly without this, but certain other modules —e.g. RDLibrary — use the RDXport service to do things like generate waveform displays.

2) The remote system will need access to TCP ports 80, 5005 and 6006 on the Rivendell systems.

3) The system running caed(8) will need to be able to send UDP packets back to the remote system to ports 30000 - 30100.

Cheers!


|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Chief Developer |
| | Paravel Systems |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| A room without books is like a body without a soul. |
| -- Cicero |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|